Episode 5: Liz and Evy start a book club

Welcome back to Catching Up with Liz and Evy.

Welcome back, happy Saturday night. I think it's Saturday.

I know I really did throw me for a loop for a second today has felt very much like a Sunday

Same.

Yeah. How has your week been, Liz?

⁓ it's been good, I have to think about it. Andrew went to a Yankee game today with his dad. Which is I think why it feels like a Sunday, 'cause he works Sundays. So he was just gone all day. ⁓ so it was just me and Rio went over to my parents, went for a little walk and folded laundry that has been sitting in baskets for I don't know how long. So that that got done. Yeah.

You know what? When you have a baby

Amazing.

You limit like if you do if you have a a to do list of like five things and you do like one quarter of one thing, that's a success. Yeah. Yeah. And then we're going to a synchronoyo thing at our friends tomorrow. Which will be fun. I think I'm gonna make ⁓ rice and beans.

Amazing. I'm obsessed with that. Cute. Rice and beans. Delicious. Fantastic. I also folded a dramatic amount of laundry this week because I did let it sit. My laundry is outside and I often will do like the last load of the day and like leave the first load in the laundry basket and then leave the second load in the dryer and just not fold it, which is a horrible recipe for disaster because then it can all sit like that.

Until I decide.

I'll let you in on a little secret, please. Everybody does that.

Okay, You're fine. I mean, I know I know everyone does that however, it's just like It drives me crazy because I need I I wait to the last minute to do the laundry I've out of underwear and then I'm just picking underwear out of the the laundry basket the clean the clean one for Until I fucking get sick of it and eventually actually fold all the laundry. Anyway, it got to the point I think on Wednesday I was just like I can either do a productive work thing or I can do all of my chores right now.

And I was like, the work thing can wait. I need to do this. I've been putting off these house chores for... And I just did it. I just pretended it was Saturday and just...

Sometimes having a work thing to procrastinate forces you to do house things that you procrastinate and then vice versa. So like the it's a win win.

I constantly am trading off on the responsibilities. know what I did this week? Actually, yesterday I saw Devil Wears Prada 2.

For sure. Right. Good job. How was it? I keep forgetting. ⁓

Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely seeing more movies lately. It's it's fun. But was really cute. It was really sweet. It was like obviously the first one is like iconic. So it's like you're not really like competing with that. ⁓ But it was it was awesome. I mean you have the same cast you're still like you're in new york city. You're in all the fashion like It's the outfits the budget for this one was very

Well, like, come on, they're all mega stars now.

Right. also I think the lore of the first movie is that it was written by, I think Anna Wintour's assistant? No way. And it was like, the book doesn't really have a plot apparently, as I've been told, but it was just like little moments of working in that job. then, so the movie is based off like that of someone's real experience working for an editor in chief. ⁓

Didn't Ellen like rebel against the movie and like never acknowledge it?

I Well, yeah, like she was kind of like, I don't know that she did anything, but everyone kind of blacklisted them. Like they couldn't get clothes from most of the designers. ⁓ And they like, you know, they make up names of designers and things ⁓ in the movie. They also have the regular names, but I don't think anyone appears in that movie or they were like, it was hard to get. And they had a very small budget of like buying clothes, et cetera, et cetera.

So this one was different, you know, this one. Meryl Streep and Anna Wintour had like a, they were on the cover of Vogue together to promote the movie. You know what I mean? Very different. But anyway, it was great. I mean, it had cutting one-liners, it had amazing fashion, all of the things. I think like, unfortunately, I feel like with any sequel, you're just like going to be more critical. And like, there's definitely things that I think were unnecessary, but like, I don't know.

It was a fun movie. Like part of the plot was that like,

What?

you know, the death of journalism and things like that, like how journalism is changing, how there's no job security for anyone. And that's, that was awesome. I mean, it was a good, understandable plot point. But then another plot point was like these like tech bros, you know, and like billionaires who have all this like cash and like live this like weird life that's not in touch with reality. And like, they're kind of part of this like, ⁓ plot to like purchase the magazine or whatever.

And, ⁓ B.J. Novak is a character who like, he's like... No, his dad like owned the... Elias Clarke, whatever, like the parent company of the magazine, who is in the first one, the dad. And then he's the son. And he, at some point in the movie, gets to make decisions about the magazine. like, his character just doesn't seem necessary at all in the movie. And his character kind of annoys me.

What

But again, it's objective, so whatever. But there's just like a few things where I'm like, this doesn't really seem to have like the spirit of the original project happening, but like, whatever. Most of the movie was super great. The music was back and good. The fashion was great. And Anne Hathaway, Meryl Streep, Stanley Tucci, Emily Blunt, what are we gonna do?

Come on, like come on. That's amazing. Were there any ⁓ Harry Potter references?

That is such a good question. Wow. No, I don't think so. That is a shame. Sad. No, I love that question. No, I don't think so. Because that's one of the charms of the OG movie for sure is the Harry Potter.

For sure. And just like the time period it was it was in is such a charm. Like movies, come on.

That's the thing too, I'm like you really can't compete with something that like is a comfort movie of when things were okay, even though things were not totally okay, Yeah. Am I wrong in saying that?

also made me a lot less aware that social media wasn't as a rampant.

Apparently it came out before the first iPhone. that insane? Meryl Streep said that in an interview. I did not fact-check Meryl Streep, but that's what I heard in an interview.

Wow. believe Meryl Streep, does she need to be fact checked? ⁓

No. In fact, all facts will come from Mael Street looking forward.

She's Merrill fucking ⁓ I hadn't ⁓ Anne Hathaway again, I didn't fact check this, but I think it's true. She bought the rights to a movie and basically the plot is that a trad wife

Yes.

Yeah, so so it's a trad wife and, you know, influencer, yada yada gets thrown back to the eighteenth century or something like that and then has to actually live the life that she's promoting. I

my god. How does that make you feel?

I was talking about trout wafery in general

No, I'm like cuz I'm like

I'm excited. It makes me

ridiculous but like also awesome but like I'm almost like I don't even want to like talk about any of that you know what I mean? I would watch it too. would watch it too. That sounds hilarious. Honestly I'm here for anything Anne Hathaway wants to do. I feel like we haven't really seen her in a while but I don't know if that's really true. Yeah.

I would watch it. No. Okay, another question for you. Ann Hathaway and Dakota Johnson and what's his face? Josh Josh No no no no no no no. I'm gonna look it up in a second. But the trailer of Verity came out. It looks terrifying. What are

You do more Hutchins. I didn't even know they were gonna do that.

⁓ it I'm so mad because I really wanna watch it and I hated that book.

I love that you hated that book. Also, I watched the other one with the Justin Maldoni and the Blake Lifer, whatever. And that was also horrible. So I'm glad that it was horrible. Yeah. I'm going to just that out. That's fine. Yeah.

Same sorry, Nova.

I guess it's fine if we want to watch it. And if we like it, I would say it's due to Anna Hathaway and nothing else.

Okay. I think it would be a much better movie than it. Here here's my here's the whole spiel on why I hate this book. Good thriller. Like couldn't put it down, creepy, such a good thriller. I was so mad at the ending because there it basically is no conclusive ending and it's supposed to be up to like the reader to interpret. Which I'm like, you can't do that for a

That's a good point. Yes, Verity by Colleen Yeah. Can we recap this and spoil it like spoiler alert for Verity? Yeah, like okay an author is hired by the husband or is it by the publisher?

Spoilers up ahead. The husband and the publisher thing together to go straight.

She's hired to go straight. Is the wife dead? In a coma.

No. So So there's a married couple. The wife is a extremely famous author. She is in a coma. Something happened. so the husband and the publisher, I'm pretty sure it's both of them together, hire this woman to ghostwrite the final book of her series or like the next book of this series. So she goes there and ends up moving into like their mansion with them. And she's like going through the notes of the author to try to like piece together how the story would go and stuff like that.

But like it's so creepy 'cause the wife is in a coma. But like

Right. she? also is she like creepy things happen and it's like you start to question things. The notes are crazy.

one of their or both I think they had three kids, I think twins and then a boy, and both of the twins died. Is it twins? I'm pretty sure it was girl twins because then she's reading again, yes, well way spoiled already. But ⁓ this has all happens like this is like the plot of the book. So now like real spoilers ahead. As she's going through the author's notes, she finds this journal and basically it shows like how horrible of a person she was and basically how she like loved one twin and hated the other one.

That's right. And then one twin had a peanut allergy. And I think like she like set it up and it's all like detailed in her journal. She set it up where the twin went to the ⁓ a friend's house and like didn't have her epi pen and there was peanut butter died. And that was the twin that she liked.

right.

So then the other twin I forget what it was, like it and then it was like she ended up like essentially killing the other twin.

The ghost writer finds out that she might have killed her kids. Meanwhile, meanwhile, meanwhile, he's falling in love with the husband or whatever, or they're having a starting an affair of sorts. And there is one kid alive still in the house.

Exactly. A boy. And she's also reading about like her and her husband's relationship and like how sexual it was.

And meanwhile the husband's also like yeah, I could get into it

Yeah, like they're similar. But then it turns out that like the journal that she found and was reading, detailing how awful of a person the author was, was like a a ⁓ practice writing.

I hate this fucking- She finds that out in the end after she fucks the husband, after she decides that she really likes this life she's living. And it's okay because the wife's psychotic and probably killed her kids. But then we all find out together that this is a fiction.

Yes. It was a writing practice. A right journal she wrote was a writing practice where she was like, Yeah, it was awful to write these things but like it helped me get in like I don't know, practice writing this crazy thriller thriller book that she's famous for. Right. So that's her like like how could you think that of me? I'm a good person. Meanwhile, there's also like such creepy moments with her. But anyway, so then

weird Meanwhile, the reader, you're convinced that this woman is not in a coma and that she's fucking sneaking around the house.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

⁓ my god, the bite marks on the headboard. ⁓ my god.

And she looks up at the top of the stairs and there. I have chills. It's so creepy. So yeah, such a good thriller, but it's so messed up that there's no conclusion because then you don't know. You're like, So is the wife this amazing person? But then there's like a extra bonus chapter online that I read, and it just like makes the husband out to be extremely creepy and weird. And you're like, who

It's so creepy.

What is going on? So it's just like so ambiguous and there's no conclusion. And I'm like, man up and just write a conclusion.

It feels like a bad, like, so yeah, in conclusion, the author decides to like, instead of like leading you toward a conclusion or an interesting cliffhanger, in my opinion, they very much just kind of muddy the waters and they're like, ooh, but who knows, everyone could be fucking insane. To me, it like,

The equivalent of like and they woke up and it was all like that.

Dream exactly which is really stupid. Yes, or extremely hard to pull off Well, and I don't think this author did a good job I think it felt very lazy at the end. It was just like

Agree. That's how it was it? Was it exactly like this? Was it what do you think? But with that being said, the movie trailer looked

Like, yeah. Like, I will watch it, I will watch it!

I do think the story make like you can do that a little bit better with a movie, I think. Because they're maybe I think so. Cause like the characters are all portrayed a certain way. So it's like they're all portrayed the same way to everybody versus everyone reading it from their own perspective. You know what I mean? So I feel like because of that you can have better conversation. I don't know.

It can be less confusing maybe. Interesting. Maybe because it's done poorly in the book. Yeah, it can be improved upon in movie.

Yes. I yeah, I do think women need a movie.

But yeah, it was a cool story. like you said, cause I don't, I had a preconception of Colleen Hoover as an author. was like, I'm not hearing good things. I'm hearing she's a little bit lazy in her storytelling with like taking care of subject matter. So I wasn't expecting much. But like you said, when I started Verity, it the first book of hers I ever picked up and the only one. ⁓ It did grip me. Like it was like, I was like, okay, this is like, obviously like it's good enough writing.

It's good writing. Like she can write a story for sure. And I was like, oh shit, like I can't put this down. Like this is fascinating. But yeah, I don't know. But then that's why it's so disappointing. So I'm like, so it seems that you can write and you chose not to. Like what is going on? Like why are you being a lazy, lazy hoe? And it's not surprising to me that her subject material became this insane lawsuit between Justin Valdonny and Blake Lively.

To me I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. Like there's irresponsible behavior happening in this universe. I don't know. I don't know.

Here's the thing. I know if I read a different one of her books I would be like pulled in and it's a good story. Yeah. But I just don't really like care too. I don't care too. You pissed me off when I read that first book. I genuinely was very upset. I ranted to you so hard down it.

I just. Yeah. And I was living for it because I also wanted to

We would agree. You know what I just found out today, actually. So Celine, my little sister, told me to read these two books, but there's a series of, I think it's six maybe. ⁓ The Boys of Tommen series. Have you heard or seen on TikTok? Cheesy, like feels like you're like back in high school reading like your classic like romance.

No. Wait, let me Google. You go read it right now. Exactly. There's nothing better.

They're they're set in Ireland and they're on Spotify. If you have premium you can listen. So like Irish accents.

Binding 13.

Yeah. Like yeah, there's moments where it's like cheesy and you're like, okay, like this is like a bit ridiculous for high school kids. But like who cares? Because you know that going into it, you know? It's not pretending to be anything else. Like that's it is what it is. Anyway, so I read the first two books.

Yeah, setting it You

I did cry in part of the second book. Wow, like family stuff that happens, like gets to you. Like you're just like like your picture, it's so descriptive. Like you know how like again, like a high school book, everything is like so descriptive. You're reading it from like a high schooler's, like a teenager's point of view. It like takes you back there a little bit. Yes, exactly. So something like this one scene that happens. I was like, I can't remember if I can take this.

This is so intense.

Wow. The exposition is It's on Kindle Unlimited, that's how you know the level of quality it is, and I can't wait. I can't wait.

Exactly. But listen to it a little bit too. Do book Anyway, they're making an Amazon show coming up. I just saw it today. Yeah. I was on A Amazon reading it, so

Okay. Yes! Let's fucking go. No, that's the kind of shit that I want made. I don't need calling Hoover. I want this. Like take it down a notch.

Exactly, it's exactly what you sign up for. It's not pretending to be something different.

That's what it is. That's what pissed me off the most about Colleen Hoover's is that it's like you are trying to trick me and it's pissing me off. I will not be fooled. You will not get me. How fucking dare you first of all. Who do you think you are? But exactly it's what you signed up for. think too like I don't read a lot of thrillers of this nature. You know what I mean? Not to get all in Colleen Hoover again.

Yeah.

But like, I see people who read a lot, like post, like, you know, like the, woman in the train and like the, I don't know, the bunch of random, there's like as many of those, like, like not cheap thrills, but you know, cheap thrills versus like, ⁓ the romance, like the, whatever they call it, ripped bodice romance things, you know what I mean? Just like cheap, like paperback romances that you can find anywhere for like a dollar.

I just feel like I never got into the thrill version of that. There is that whole world of like thriller. And I feel like those are the people who really like calling hooper. But whatever. Anyway, boys of Tom and I'm in. I'm locked in. I gotta get out of my hockey romance as my shitty.

This is rugby. Rugby romance. I can't wait. And hurling hurling hurler?

I can't wait to learn about hurling. See, this is cultural.

It's not a lot about hurling, but I know there's like a the word for it's funny 'cause at the beginning there's like a whole ⁓ index of Irish slang and like pronunciation how to say the crack. How to say some of the Irish names. ⁓ but there's hurling, which is like a big Irish sport, and then there's like a f I forget what it's called, but the female version of hurling. It's not called hurling, which I think is kinda interesting.

It's kinda cool.

Incredible. That is really interesting.

It's like the same sport, but it's not.

You know what book I was thinking about the other day, which I don't even remember the name of? What was that book with the girl who had the neighbor who was like, keep it in the family love. Remember that kid? don't.

Still.

it was the boys next door.

Keep it in the family. Love

Remember it was the girl who had like the two childhood friends, the one like her best friend lived across the street and they would like talk on the phone every night and ⁓ fuck what did they call her? And then they went to the, it was in Nebraska, remember? It was like.

Wait, Philip was the

Yes! Yes! Phillip! Maybe like Johnny or something?

That's the name of Johnny Kavanaugh, was it?

⁓ right up our alley. This is like the most guilty pleasure book ever.

It's so fun to read.

so fun to read. There's something about it. almost want to... I bet if I reread it, I'm sure it would be very childish or whatever, but I almost think there's an art to that at this point. Kind of I don't even know. Because whatever mindset I was in at 16 reading that, was perfect.

And off. It's the same, whatever this book is that we can't think of the name of, sorry. ⁓ it's literally the same vibe as 'cause I I thirteen. Like the same.

I like highly dad I'll be.

And there's like something in that book with Philip. Mm-hmm. As like they like grow up together, right? And then like her parents both pass.

Yes, yes, and that's like the big... Yeah. ⁓ my god, it's about to show up in my Kindle. ⁓ Wait, ⁓ my god, that boy.

God keep going. ⁓ boy. Cause which one was it?

And then there's that wedding. There's Danny. Danny is the other one.

He's like Yes. The three of them are best, best friends.

JJ Reynolds is her name.

J. J. Reynolds.

Jaden is her full name. Oh my God. just remember it because she was such like a brat too. She was just like, and then like her parents died and then like, so she had all that money and so it's like they got that house off campus for college. I just remember it all. They went to Nebraska State. Danny was on the football team. No, it was Phillip on the football team. They're all hot shit. They're all like so popular.

No, 'cause Danny was like a real football star.

Yes. Yes. And she and Danny would just like make out all the time and make Philip mad. Makes no sense.

Because she and Philip were like actually like had feelings for each other, but she and Johnny didn't. Or Danny.

Yeah, you can't be making out with the people you have feelings

Yeah, you can't beat books like this. Come on.

No, and like as a 31 year old you're like I can't like I mean, yeah, I can

like they're just you're not like really recommending them as like this is quality literature. They're just fun to read. And it's like watching the devil where's Prada for nostalgia reading these books. That's what

basically the equivalent of a TV. 100%. I completely agree with that. It's the same thing. We read so many of these books. When we got, I think you got a Kindle first and that was like life-changing. ⁓

It's the same thing. Like hold it. ⁓ it's shirted. But they just like hold it and like not like you know like your hand gets cramped holding a book open when you're laying down. So that's my biggest self where it can read at night without a speech. Yes.

The fact that I could go to the beach and play and the- Oh my god, the nighttime reading is so- was- So true.

It's so much easier to travel. Speaking okay, back to hockey romances for a second. Have you read it's not actually like a hockey romance, it's actually a good a good book, a good piece of literature. Have you read Bear Town?

Yes, because you recommended it to me years ago. I love that you read this up because I think I ran into maybe I don't think there's sequels. know there's some more books in that world. ⁓ But I randomly came upon that author and I could tell just based on like the print of the title and like the cover art. was like, that is the author of Bear Town. ⁓

⁓ yeah, years ago. But I'm blind, so I'm like if I need to reread it.

No, I didn't. I didn't. it's on my mind too. I remember being so intrigued by that book and like you recommended it and you have slightly different, like you find different books than me. ⁓

Great. My older sister recommended that one to me.

That's probably why you such great recs. ⁓ Shout out Marie and her literary mind. no, that book was incredible. What did you like about that book?

⁓ it was just so long ago, I just remember being f feeling like very moved by it.

It was really sensitive subject material. it was like, it's set in like, is it set in like a different country, like Norway or something?

Yeah, I forget which one, but yeah, it's somewhere in Scandinavia. Scandinavia.

Scandinavia and see they've been translated to English or it was written in English.

I think translated to English 'cause some of the town names are in ⁓ whatever language.

⁓ Yes. But anyways, it like a super dark, cold place at the time of the story. hockey is life. And it's almost like the equivalent of like football in a Texas town, it feels like. like a lot of ⁓ leeway is given to the hockey players. Something bad happens. It's just fascinating. The way they like approach the people involved in the like the

Hockey is a life.

The conflict was so interesting to me.

There's ⁓ yeah, there's a lot of depth to it. I that definitely a good a good recommendation. Yeah. What are other what are some of like your top book recs? So like you're meeting someone for the first time, you're like, ⁓ you like to read too, I like to read. What are you recommending?

Yeah, I got to find out what genre they are most likely to read. You know, one something I don't recommend a lot is romance because there is some kind of weird, I know, I understand it. The stigma of that's not really literature, which is fine. And I get it because, yeah, it's a category of its own. It's like entertainment. So yeah, I'm kind of like, if I'm recommending... recommending entertainment. I've got a lot of recs. Like Emily Henry, think, is a really good writer.

I think she, like, really is really good at getting into the psychology of her characters. And, like, I think there's so much depth to her characters. And, like, she really asks really interesting questions of the situation. To a point where I'm like, that's, it's really worth people's time to read Emily Henry, in my opinion.

⁓ I ⁓ have only read a few of her books, but I agree.

Yeah, Read is like, I'm going to reread Beach Read soon. I think they're turning that into a movie. I'm also a little bit over like turning things into movies, but I get it. They're great stories. So like I said, and these are entertainment books, so it kind of makes sense. They translate to TV entertainment. But I'm trying to get back more into having at least a balance of reading some like more literary leaning ⁓ things, but I love fantasy.

So I recently read I have not answered your question. I've been recommending Project Hail Mary to everyone because it came out as a movie. I just love that book. It's an amazing book. ⁓ And then I do like to recommend some fantasy books because I find that everyone normally, if you're a reader, I feel like you kind of need recs for fantasy in my opinion.

You I still need to read. I yeah.

I always want those wrecks because

Yeah. Will you if you get a good fantasy rec from someone who you like trust you're like, okay, good.

Yeah. ⁓

There's a lot of sh pretty shitty fantasy.

There's so much shitty fantasy. There's so much like, there's so much fantasy that like, just, it's so hard to write, think, well, because there's so, like having original ideas, that's like such a core value of fantasy. Like you need to come up with something so different to capture your reader. And that's so hard to do well.

I yeah. I'm so hard to like like building a world and creating character development at the same time is so hard and so often you find that like the main character in a fantasy book is like usually they start out young, naive, go on this like adventure and learn and grow. But like sometimes like when they start out, you're like, Okay, no one is actually this like doesn't realize anything else is going on. You know what I mean?

Like

Right. Like, can't be-

That stands out as like so obvious. Like if the main character is so obviously like not seeing signs and completely ignoring them, you're like, come on, like Yes, I agree, it can be really tricky.

Yeah. It can be so tricky. I think that's a really good point too.

⁓ it gives you like so many of them can improve in like second or third button.

And I think fantasy readers are so forgiving. Because we have to be, right? Because if you're taking on that huge task of world building, I can only imagine like you have to put so much work into your characters too to make that fit like you just said. like that's so much work. Like I think I was thinking of Everflame when you said that. Yeah. Because yeah, her character is so fucking annoying in the way that like, honey, it's right there in front of you.

What are you not getting?

Yeah, same. Right there. And like everyone like her brother I remember was was

That's on the author. Why are you making that so obvious? And that's on the editor. Why are you not seeing that?

I also think Kristen Kishore is an author that I mean I both love. And she has fantasy books. ⁓ the first one is Graceling. I do think her name is Kat Katsa. Katsa. I do think Katsa in the first one is a little bit, just a little bit, where you're like, Okay, come on, girl. But then she she catches on quick and character development like proceeds. She does characters, I think, the best.

Katzer. Good night. I totally agree.

Her world is unlike anything else. Unlike anything else.

Kristen Koshore. That's absolutely why I wanted to talk about books is to talk about this series. Like this series, like the world is so lived in from the jump and the characters are, you can tell she created them with such incredible like love and respect, I feel like. Kat's absolutely, I think her characters, like what you pointed out, I feel like her characters all have

God.

very well defined strengths and very obvious weaknesses. I think it's a little almost too obvious, but she really points that out with Katz. Katz is like,

And it's only in with cats in the first book. After that, like it's not so much like that. Like fire definitely so much.

Yeah. Totally, yeah, I think you're right. I think Katze is a little too obvious. Yeah. And she says it straight up. She's like, she like, I feel like it's very obvious to the reader that like Katze does not get people very much, but that's because she's been like shunned her whole life. Right. Right. like, but we're also like, hey, maybe we learn.

Also I think appreciate about all of her books is that you're not like jumping in and it's like this world, whatever, and then something happens and then you're like have to buy into what's happening. You're in this world where things are already happening. Like Katsa is already in this, like this is I somewhat of a spoiler, I guess. But Katza's already in this like ⁓ secret society that is like rebelling against the kingdom that she's in because she doesn't agree with it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like they're already doing secret things. Like they're like you're not like you don't have to be bought into like this plot. Like it's it's it's going and it's there. And I love that. I think that's huge too.

So true. It's very true.

Throughout the series, like ⁓ the third book, Bitter Blue, like this very, very dark, dark, cruel thing happen like her father, dark, dark, cruel person. Yeah, the whole like kingdom is affected. And it's her like navigating this and overcoming broken people and broken older people that were surrounded by this cruel, evil man.

Fine, I'll read Bitter Blue again. Oh my god. It's so good. It's-

⁓ it's a ⁓ and it's like not like Like yeah, there's romance in it, but like you're just so much related for this character to like Exactly. ⁓ Healing. And then the other her half sister. Yeah. There's a whole book about her. And like just in her mind like the whole book is like them traveling from one place to another. And it just takes place in her mind mostly. Like there's of course some ⁓ like plot going on, but a lot of it is just taking place in her mind, and it's like her emotional healing from it.

It is just beautifully done.

It is so well done.

Such real, yeah, such real.

Yeah. It's so funny. I love talking about the Grayson world because I get so hung up on Fire, which is like a companion novel to this, happens in the same world, but it's very separate from the Grayson world. yeah. Slightly adjacent. And Fire is like my number one book of all time. And me and Liz, I think we read that together at 16. Like I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Because I have a photo of us both reading the book and like...

I forget what year it's from, but it is in high school. My copy is one of the only books on display in my house. Because it's like a prized possession.

Even yeah, it like her character like I just the love story in it is beautiful.

Like, if I had to choose to have Smut in the world or this book, this book would win every time. There is zero ⁓ spiciness at all to it. And I prefer this kind of romance to anything else. It's just like the slowest of burns, the enemies to friendship that like, just the way she writes relationships, I could read forever. It's just because... I don't know, that's like kind of what makes worlds, right? It's like relationships.

like that's how she builds the fabric of her worlds. And like you said, they're so perfectly in existence already. this, like fire jumps right into a time where like the entire nation, like multiple nations are on the brink of war and that's how we start that story. like we've already, it's been like 20 years since like a horrible thing has happened and like they're still dealing with the after effects.

Yeah.

of a madman, which is a fascinating trend in her books. Constantly the corruption of power, constantly dealing with horrible people in power. And I think like that's just what a thing to take on.

Yeah.

Well, they were like, just mutually destructive.

Mutually exactly.

Yeah. And they're like fathers. So it's like you have the family aspect to that. like there's so much burden of responsibility on all of these characters. ⁓ my god.

Anyway. When you like find out just like when w like one of the characters is Brigham, the other character is Fire. Yeah. Brigand is the prince. Fire is the daughter of this one of those like men who is very corrupt. And you find out how much of a good per like when he's learning how good of a person she is and like just sweet and he assumes that she's not. Anyway, but like him like learning who she is and how caring she is is just beautiful.

It's we could if everyone reads this book, we can do a whole discussion on it 'cause we can die.

So satisfying. I would love to. Everyone listen to this podcast.

And it's crazy because I think about it, I'm like, it's not like Katsa is in the first one, she's in the third one, she's in like a few of them, but she's not the main character in all of them. Same with Bitter Blue, like the they're in each other's lives and and everything, but Fire is completely standalone. And I think of all of the depth that's in it from like the beginning to the end, and I'm like, ⁓ my gosh.

It's a standalone story, like start, finish one book.

It's a masterpiece.

And there's just like so much to it.

Yeah, it's truly a masterpiece in my opinion. And when people recommend books to me, feel like books like that give me such a high standard because I just like, know what could be out there if you have something like this. And it's so subjective that like, but for a while they're on TikTok, know, Booktalk was giving so many recs, they still are, I'm sure, I'm just not on TikTok right now. But they were pissing me off.

Agree.

Because books would get five stars and like books that would review books that I loved like Project Tell Mary or I don't even know and then something else and I'd like, okay, I trust your recommendation and getting a bad rec really made me so, I took it so personally. Yeah. But books like fire just.

It's so yeah, if you need a good fantasy book series, all of them are are really good. But like prepare yourself because depth, especially

I would say, like, expectations, it's very much about like, inner battles, like it's all very much like inner monologue, and very much about personal growth, but how it affects a nation. It is political a little bit, which I love, which I love so much about that. ⁓ But it's very much like an internal journey.

It's definitely like the worlds are I think such very cool and unique. They're rich rich for sure. And not like like I feel like so many fantasy books now are so similar in so many ways. This is complete different. All of her worlds are so different. I connected, but so unique. There's nothing else really like these worlds. Yeah. ⁓ and almost like an Ella Enchanted vibe, the first one. Almost.

rich rich I totally agree. and

⁓ more mature.

Yeah, yeah. Everyone has a... If you're a Graceling in this world, you have a very specific thing that you're very good at. Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of like Ellen Chandler. She had to do what she was told or whatever. So does Katza in a way.

Scale yeah. And like the time period of it. Anyway. But like unique in that way and yeah, very you just fall in love with the characters all of

Yeah, yeah. Anyway. 100%.

What about novels? Who's a good Ooh like do you like Kristen Hannah? Have you read any of her books?

She's on my list. She's on my list of things to read. I just haven't gotten into that. I do find myself like primed to get into historical fiction. You've definitely recommended some great historical fiction. I'm not a big fan of dual timelines. I don't really like jumping back and forth between the past and the present. I don't know why. Hopefully I'll outgrow that because I know there's some really great stories like that. just, for whatever reason, it's annoying to me, but I like can't get into it.

I don't really like historical. There are a lot of historical fiction books that don't jump timelines that are really good. Like Kristen Hann, I don't think jumps timelines at all.

Yeah, I just know there's a couple that you recommended that I really do want to read. I forget what they are. It's like the sisters one. The seven sisters. Yeah.

The Seven Sisters. There was so here's I don't know if anyone it's by Lucinda Riley and she has a lot of books. and almost all of them jump timelines. But she has this one series called The Seven Sisters, and basically it's about this man and he adopts six girls and it's seven or I think eight books. I think it's eight books in total. But ⁓ He passes away, and this is like exactly how it starts. He passes away and leaves each of his daughters a letter and like a clue as to where he adopted them from.

So it's the daughter going on this journey of like finding where she was adopted from and like her usually it's like grandparents, sometimes it's great grandparents, ⁓ and like their story, and then also because it's a series, ⁓ You're learning about like Paw Salt. Why did he adopt all these girls? Like what's his story? Yeah. ⁓ he was always looking for like the seventh sister, but always said he never found her. So it's like real time there's a plot going on.

And also like one of the sisters is like this gorgeous model, but she like drinks a lot. And have their own like issues. So it's not like the best, like

Huh.

You don't like l fall in love with the sisters the way like I don't know, at least I didn't. But their stories are incredible. Yeah. And like you're you're rooting for them. Some of the sisters I like more than the others, but like they are a little bit cheesy in the characters, but it the stories just keep you going. Like the stories are just like I don't know how she came up with this. And then the last one is the story of Postal, and it's cool because it connects his life And it's like him meeting all of the girls like ancestors throughout his life.

Yeah. It's just like so thought out and well done. And like really just again, good stories. Like good to listen to if you have like a drive or ⁓ a good vacation book maybe.

Wow. No, that sounds awesome. I want... Yeah. Now that I'm more open to audiobooks, I am reading more things that I wouldn't normally. Which is good. One book that I just read, I picked it up in the airport. It is fantasy, but it's very like, it's a story of like, it's a fascinating like world. It's a little confusing, the world building, but it is, once you clicks, you're like very like lived in. And the character is very interesting.

It's a French novel. It came out in like 2017. It's called

Yeah.

⁓ A Winter's Promise and there's like four books all out and I recommend it. It's it's very good. I just ordered the second one ⁓ but it's it reminded me like of a because there's so many different ways to tell a story there's different ways to write writing styles, obviously and it just reminded me of a writing style. I really enjoy it, which is very much like ⁓ Just like logic driven. The character doesn't have a lot of emotion And I really am, but it's really enjoyable.

also just like the vocabulary used, I had to like look up a bunch of words and I was like, I miss learning new words by reading. So much like, like I kind of deemed them entertainment novels where I'm like, I really have not needed to look up many words. ⁓ and it's just nice to like feel like you're learning something a little bit. And it's, you know, it's a French novelist. So some of the

Like ⁓

translate like the word choices are very like French leaning and ⁓ Even though it's translated. I don't know. I really enjoyed it and it was very like political and like the goal of like the book wasn't really clear until like a certain point and ⁓ I don't know I just okay Nice to just like stretch your horizons a bit

⁓ It's Yeah, no, absolutely. Another book like that that ⁓ educated is one that is really good.

⁓ it's so, I read that. It's so good. No, that was really good. I love memoirs. Memoirs are one of my favorite genres for sure.

It's a nice one. I haven't read them. I haven't read many. I c I've read like people who from like The Bachelorette who wrote them.

could definitely spread. Yeah, I love... Fair, fair. No, it's so hard. ⁓ I've read a couple of memoirs by people who ran like, ⁓ fuck, some magazines in New York in like the 80s and 90s and early 2000s. And I loved them. Like any writer's memoir, I find fascinating because you just get such an interesting insight into their process and things. ⁓

You wrote a book, I give you credit.

But just like, I love like that whole, like the Devil Wears Prada is like so interesting. Cause it's like, that's not how the works anymore. ⁓ And like it's an industry that you'd never have insight into and it's totally changed now.

Into yeah. I think of ⁓ of the seven husbands of a

of Evelyn Hugo. Great name. ⁓

'Cause I feel like that's also like an insight a little bit. It does switch timelines.

Yeah, but it me less when it's both pretty modern. If you're switching timelines between the 80s and the...

Yeah. They're switching timelines, but it's like pretty much the same plot.

Exactly. Like you're just a little younger. ⁓ I loved that book. I thought it was really good. I did read some criticism that I was like, that's a good point. Like there was some good criticism on it, but I still love the story. what was the criticism? That it was a little bit like derivative of a few other stories and like just that it was a little like critical of, well there's spoilers involved, spoiler, did you read it?

They're critical of her like being attracted to women but never really diving into that very much other than her hiding that relationship. And like there wasn't a lot of like representation of women loving women other than that this woman did love women. There was like, I think a want for more depth into that relationship and more into her as a lesbian or a queer person.

I can see that. But I think that's kind of like that's exactly the point is she couldn't really be. Right. Like she loved this woman, but like I don't like and yes, they have it. But like she the whole person for hiding it. Yeah. That's the time period she's in. So she can't really so I I can say yeah, sure I see the point.

Yeah. Her character isn't that. ⁓ Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. ⁓ But I thought I loved the story. I really liked the story and I thought it was really interesting like the whole like Idea and that she was a famous star and that I love stories about people who were famous, you know, whose memoirs I love to read and I've read a shit ton Comedy writers. I'm obsessed with comedy writers. I find them fascinating and like I love their memoirs because they're not comedic Well, that's not true.

A lot of them are comedic but they're normally super insightful and just like so fascinating. Like how do you make comedy your life? And like Amy Poehler's books, Tina Fey's, Mindy Kaling's, I have read Mindy Kaling's memoirs multiple times and listening to them are hilarious. Like I was, it's like so funny.

Okay, it reminds me there's a comedian. Basically she wrote a book, but it's like a it's a graphic novel. Like it was so good.

What? That's awesome.

It was so good. And it was like a story of her life. Like she's ⁓ Indian and lives in New York. So it's like her I don't I think she grew up in New York. I wanna say she grew up maybe in the Midwest somewhere. But it's her and like it's so it dives into so many themes. And like even like ⁓ racism is a big thing, big theme.

Okay. say. Yeah.

and being like an immigrant in in Amer like in American culture. And it's just like her life story. But it it's yeah, it's funny. Yeah. And then also like her like exploring in college, like exploring sexuality and and it's so sh and it was a graphic novel, so it was such a cool experience.

Yeah. So cool. That's awesome. No, just feel like, well known fact, ⁓ you got to be intelligent to be funny most of the time. And like, if their career is in writing, they're a good writer. So it's just, I've never really been disappointed by a comedian's book. Yeah. Steve Martin's Born Standing Up. Great title, great book.

Okay, good to know. Great title. I love Steve Martin. Come on. Sweetheart. Okay. I yeah. Comedian memoirs. Because memoirs agree, like people have interesting lives.

on. Yes, I think like as a kid I remember someone making I think I think our eighth grade English teacher made fun of memoirs and I was like, ⁓ okay I don't really know what a memoir is, but I know that's something that's not serious and then Which I totally get like there's like ⁓ the celebrity memoirs. They got their book deal like whatever but No, I have come very much to respect the memoir

Have you read the Golden Compass?

Yes. ⁓ my god, what a great series. Thank god you didn't skip that.

My the one of the his dark ⁓ underrated is The Book of Dust La Belle Sauvage. Have you read that?

Yeee... Have I read that? I read this series. I don't know. I might have stopped there.

It's a I wanna say it's a prequel.

Yes, I don't think I've, I think I've read one of them because there's another series. This is the start of another series, right?

The the bad guy has a has a cheetah what's it called?

⁓ What do they call them? Demon, that's right. ⁓ I don't know. can't, I forget if I, I think I finished the original series, Philip Hillman's, I think it's His Dark Materials. Is that the series? So I read those three books and I think I just like needed, and I read them so fast because they were so incredibly good. ⁓ my God. That series should go, it's in my Hall of Fame. I think that like the ending.

Demon. Materials is the series. It's really listening to it was also so good. I don't think I listened. I think I I don't the scenes with the polar bears are phenomenal. Because the voices of them are stress.

I got to. You put me onto graphic audio and I thank you. I thank you very much.

Yeah, they do a really good job. ⁓ wait, but I don't think I finished that series. I think I got to the one where she's older and her and her demon are like fighting and I was just like, This is so sad.

and Yeah, no, that's the thing. These books are so, they're intense. They're intense. In the first book, when she sees people losing their demons, that was like, it felt like a death. Like, it felt like so depressing. And I think that's why I needed a break before reading the Book of Dust. I think I was so exhausted.

Yes. Yeah. If read ⁓ the Bell La Belle Sauvage. It's just such a good story. ⁓ and it's like very like it's like a about a bo like a boy, young whatever. So good.

But Liz you gotta read the ending because I just remember being like I'm not gonna like this ending like there's no way for them to like How like it was such a it was very? ⁓

But they just went in a direction I never expected when she got older and I was like, I can't deal with this.

No, but it's so good. It's definitely, I get what you're saying and you kind of need to like, you almost have to like mourn that book in a way. You're like, this is a different story now. Like that story was a childhood and that's the whole plot at the end is like, there's something wrong because you're no longer children. And it's very line witch in the wardrobe to me. It's very like magician's nephew. Like you can't come back to Narnia.

You're old now. Like you're not a child. Like Peter and Susan, you can't come back. which is heartbreaking. I remember as a kid being like, ⁓ my God, absolutely influenced the sadness that I felt growing up. But there's so much of that. So I was really like, okay, I was preparing myself. Like you're going to be, you're not gonna feel good after this. But the ending, I remember, gave me so much satisfaction.

Okay. Another author that I have a lot of that has so many different types of books. She had fiction. All fiction. But like historical fictions and current fictions is JoJo Moys. Also really good audible books because a lot of them are based in ⁓ England. Ooh. So like funny, witty humor in her modern ones, but then also like really strong historical fictions of like such interesting like moments in time.

Mm-hmm. Ooh yeah!

Strong female characters.

I love authors who aren't afraid to dive into different subject material.

Yeah. Like some of them I I would describe almost like boring in a way, but like not. Yeah.

I that. You know who I love and I have, you know, I really, promote her a lot, but I don't read a lot of her books. Elizabeth Gilbert. She.

I've only read City of Girls.

Yeah, I've City of Oath. I've never read E. Pray Love. That's what she's most famous for, but I've never read it. Okay. I read, ⁓

⁓ I have read that and it was good. ⁓ well.

⁓ it's like the, I gotta get this name right. It's the something, it's like about moss or like mushrooms. ⁓ fungus. don't know. But that book was so, it's like the culmination of small things or what's called the signature of all things. That was a crazy book. So good. There's also one about lobster farmers or lobster fishermen on Maine. And it's like a rivalry between two towns that both are lobster people. And it's fascinating. Like she just like is one of those authors that really like, it finds like a subculture and just completely immerses herself in the story.

that's why it reminded me of that.

Okay. That's cool. Yeah.

I loved City of Girls too.

Yeah. I didn't love it. I was just

But I can't remember why. That's kind of why I like it so much is that because there's not really a plot. You're like hearing, you're being told a story and it's kind of like you're being told a story by your grandma where like at the end she's going to be like and that's what happened. You're like all right nice good one. true. But like it's a good story it's just like I could have maybe done something else I guess but like it's a good story.

Yeah, agree.

But the one felt different, it felt better. Cool. Because City of Girls is very much like a grandma telling you a story. The lobsterman one is like, this could have been a documentary and it was worth your time.

Yeah, fair. I do like that's part of the reason I love historical fiction is like you can learn about something so specific. Yeah.

I really want to add to my list a ⁓ nonfiction, something about, I hate to say it, global politics or global economies. Ian Bremmer was on, he's a political scientist or political whatever you call those people who study global politics for a living and write about it. He was on Trevor Noah's podcast and I'm like, all right, I'll go read one of your books. Let's see what we got here. But then I get depressed about the world, so we'll see.

No, but it is, but like knowledge is power and like I do want some knowledge, you know

Absolutely. You need you need breaks. You need books for a nice fun break and then books to learn and then yeah, I think you can learn a lot from fiction too and people romance and like just like the characters. But yeah, it it is definitely good to be well read. Writing is good writing, period.

Yes, a thousand. Good writing is good writing. Great catch up, Liz. Love it. I feel caught up on your reading list. Yeah.

Catch up. Yeah. Maybe we should start ⁓ like a book club of sorts where we read a book and discuss together.

I like, what are you gonna read next? Like, what are you reading right now? I'm gonna read the Boys of Tommen for like a 10.

No. Well I just finished the second one and I wanna read the third one, but I'm like I kind of need a break from it. Like that. I was like, ⁓ maybe I'll just listen to it. There you go. Because I was listening to it and then I switched to Kindle. But ⁓ yeah, I kinda need a break. So I'm gonna see I don't know, bop around.

Yeah. Maybe I'll look up a memoir. Let's maybe we read a memoir together.

Okay. Anyway, so good catch up. Hope you liked it. Let us know what books you like.

Good job, Joe. Subscribe. Yeah, tell us your book recs. Give us my star.

Comment your favorite book, your book rec, and if you'd be interested in a book club.

Yeah, recommend this podcast to a friend or I dare you, I promise you I'll write my own memoir and make you read it.

I'd read it. Alright. Thank you everybody.

Bye.